34: The Epic Sex Series Part 3 – Sex and the Singles Ward

Greg and Amy host a discussion with Sonya, Angie and Dan about sex as a Mormon “single” and how being a single person in the LDS Church has affected their personal sex lives and their opinions about sex and sexuality.

Play

Listen to Angie’s Voices Interview here.

Listen to Sonya’s Voices Interview here.

Seventeen Rules for Celestial Dating

40 Comments

  1. Humpty Dumpty

    you guys really needed at least one former byu bishop on here and former byu students.

    Reply Mar 29, 2013 @ 15:26:11
    • Amy R. Padgett Blosch

      its not exactly easy to get people on a podcast to talk abt their personal sex lives and its near impossible to get a Bishop on to talk abt how they dealt with sexual “sins”. The only Bishop that agreed to participate with Mormon Expression only agreed to panel if we altered his voice and even then it was dicey. Its a valid suggestion but getting people on the podcast, even if they are former members is not as easy as you’d think.

      Reply Mar 29, 2013 @ 19:10:36
  2. Magnum

    From my perspective, many singles try so hard to repress their sexuality that they become effectively asexual. Personally, I spent years bottling it up until one day, I was listening to a radio interview about medications given to sexual predictors to suppress their sex drive, and thought I gotta get me some of that. It was then that I realized that I had a problem and that God never intended for me to be celibate. I still haven’t figured it all out but I’m not contemplating “taking teamasil for the side effects” (if any of you “arrested development” fans get what I mean).

    Reply Mar 29, 2013 @ 22:21:15
    • Greg Rockwell

      I am just finishing Elna Baker’s brilliant memoir about her experiences as a single adult in NYC.

      SPOILER ALERT: She’s dating another adult Mormon, thinking about getting married, and she reveals that he has NEVER TOUCHED A BREAST. Second base is a long long way from the end goal, but yes, Magnum, yes yes yes, I think you’re dead on.

      Reply Apr 01, 2013 @ 11:18:43
  3. Sexually Frustrated in Seattle

    Prophets: “Men! GET MARRIED Now!”
    Prophets & R.S.: “Women! run away from a man who mentions the word porn” (1)
    dudes: hmm…recently, am I worthy?
    Prophets: “Women are Incredible!” (2)
    dude: hmm… I’m not worthy because I masturbated
    dude: how long do I need to be abstinent before I can get a temple recommend?
    Local Leader: ~6 months (3)
    Local Leader (later that month): “so are you dating anyone?”
    dude: (thinking) ‘Are you a freaking idiot?’
    chick: “nobody ever asks me out”
    dude: “cool! I finally have a temple recommend”
    dude (to women): will you go out with me? (50% conversion rate)
    chick: “lets make out!!”
    dude: “ok, but lets take it easy… nothing that gives me blue balls” (4)
    chick: “why?’
    dude: “because blue balls makes it hard for me not to masturbate”
    chick: “eeewww, that’s gross.. you haven’t ever done that before have you?”
    dude: “actually I have”
    chick: “when?!!!”
    dude: “last time was about 6 months ago”
    chick: “I need to talk to my bishop”
    chick (to other chicks) “Dude masturbated… should I keep dating him”
    other chicks: no way, you deserve better… once a porn addict,always a porn addict.
    Prophets (to local leader): Why aren’t people getting married?
    Local leader: “porn!”
    Prophets: I guess we need to do another porn talk in general conference.

    If these men claim to be prophets, SEERS!! and freaking revelators… then why in God’s name… do they use SHAME (the initial tactic the devil used) as their primary motivation tactic for encouraging sexual sin?

    (1) “…. if a young woman has any hint that a young man she is interested in is involved in pornography in any of its forms, I would tell her to consider it as a flashing red light, which means ‚Äústop this relationship”
    CES Fireside 2008 – Julie Beck

    (2) You devoted sisters who are single parents for whatever reason, our hearts reach out to you with appreciation. (Quentin Cook) April 2011

    (3) personal life experience

    (4) never used this line, but I will in the future!

    Reply Mar 31, 2013 @ 07:00:26
    • Brandt Malone

      Personally, I was always fond of this approach:

      http://www.myregisblog.com/2008/10/lol-cats-general-conference.html

      Reply Apr 01, 2013 @ 11:12:37
    • Amy R. Padgett Blosch

      quite possibly the best reply ever Seattle. contact us for getting you on the Podcast!!!!

      Reply Apr 02, 2013 @ 21:35:52
      • Sexually Frustrated in Seattle

        awhh shucks amy… I guess all great replies come from great suffering (and a great topic!) — It’s truly the gift that keeps giving as Greg said:)

        I’ll have to think about being a guest. I have so much pain/anger from my mormon experiences… that I probably need a therapist for awhile before I can build some objectivity. I’m filled with that special blend of passive/aggressive rage that only a mormon can truly appreciate .

        P.S. I wanted to give a shout out to the Temple Worthy Social Media Monitoring employee at church headquarters who is reading this. Keep up the good work!!! God loves you.

        Reply Apr 03, 2013 @ 03:04:50
    • Rob

      I LOVED the role-play given by Sexually Frustrated in Seattle. It found myself laughing my arse off!

      I think you hit it pretty dead on.

      Reply Aug 06, 2016 @ 09:16:43
  4. Sexually Frustrated in Seattle

    excuse the typos^^^^^

    Reply Mar 31, 2013 @ 07:04:08
  5. Warren

    I am a late 30-something never-married LDS guy who has been in the singles wards wayyyy too long, I really enjoyed this podcast. I’ve got more stories about the weirdness of LDS singles sex than I know what to do with. I agree with the sentiment that the church turns a lot of people asexual, especially women. It’s much harder for dudes to become asexual. I think that’s why so many of us bolt from activity if we are not married by age 30. I know that even very devout members will finally make peace with masturbation just so that they can maintain sanity and stay in the church without going off the rails.

    I am amazed at the amount of mental gymnastics that goes on with LDS singles. I apologize for being so graphic, but as a matter of illustration of the insanity, just the other day I was rolling around on my bed, naked, with another single LDS woman in her mid-30’s, who is a virgin, who I would actually like to be with (forever). She lets me play with her boobs and rub my man-gear on her female areas (but I can’t go in, because that’s a bigger sin). She’s also okay with me sticking a finger in her back door because that would not mess up her virginity either. However, she does not want to see my manhood in all of its glory or touch it with her hands – for who knows what reason, even though she wants me to rub my man-meat all over her. She also feels like if she has an orgasm, then that’s really bad. Having an orgasm is way worse than me feeling up her boobs and dry humping with no orgasm. In her head, she has these boundaries constructed, which I think are almost completely arbitrary, bizarre, and make no sense to me.

    I stopped confessing anything years and years ago (it got really old). My mantra is that I will only be affectionate with someone I am truly interested in marrying. So if I end up having sex in the process of trying to get married, so what? It’s a victimless crime if both parties are willing to step up and take responsibility.

    She use to confess every little thing to her bishop, but the poor shmuck was completely overwhelmed because he is the bishop of a large mid-singles ward in Utah Valley and probably totally swamped with confessions. He finally sat her down and said – “look – I don’t want to know and I don’t need to know. All I really want you to do is help you feel peace and clarity so that you can move your life forward and get married.” He has never asked her for her temple recommend.

    I am glad that church leaders, and especially mid-singles bishops, are becoming more pragmatic about helping the members. I see the trend as way less disciplinarian today than in the past. Back in the 90s I was put on probation a few times, then disfellowshipped, and even excommunicated, all for slipping up a few times with women that I was seriously dating and trying to figure out if we should get married. I was never a predator type or even a guy who would sleep around with no intention of being with the girl. Things are bound to happen if you are in the singles scene for long enough and if you are attractive enough to date a lot, then a lot of opportunities will come your way. Believe me, I turned down offers of sex way more than I indulged, but I certainly got my ass handed to me a few times by a few hardcore bishops. After that, I will never confess anything, ever again, except for on this message board, for educational and entertainment purposes.

    My court of love over 10 years ago that got me exed for having sex with my girlfriend at the time was so invasive, sick and wrong, words cannot adequately express. Then wearing the scarlet letter around for the next few years and being denied re-baptism by a sick, control-freak stake president was what sealed the deal. I lost faith that my church leaders knew what was best for me, so confession became useless and more of a hindrance to my testimony.

    I have active, believing single friends who have gone on huge sex rampages, months of sleeping with different women or guys every weekend. After all of that, they’ll go in and confess and get a slap on the wrist. I don’t believe that they should be punished, but the bishop should have a firm discussion with them as to the underlying reasons why they are on a self-destructive path. These deeper issues are way more important in today’s world of birth control and relatively consequence free sex.

    Reply Apr 01, 2013 @ 22:27:25
    • Amy R. Padgett Blosch

      wonderful post Warren….thank you for sharing that…and please..will you contact me via FB?

      Reply Apr 02, 2013 @ 21:37:02
    • Mandy

      This is a forewarning from a girl’s point of view that’s slept with several RMs and miserable married Mormon men and they sounded much like yourself: I’ve had lots of crazy sex with lots of guys and never once have I had one of them put their *finger in my back door*. Why? Just why would you do that to someone or want that done to yourself? Because you have all these crazy notions about whats moral or sexy and you have no concept of how to have great sex besides whatever shit you read about in Twilight or how to actually please a guy. I GUARANTEE she thinks blow jobs are yucky and will never ever swallow. Ever.

      You marry her, I give it one month before she’s going to the bathroom while wanting to hold your hand, having you help her take out stuck tampons, shave and go with her to Gyno. appointments. Do you really want smelly fingers for time and all eternity? This stuff is going to make you ashamed of being a man. So let’s pretend you haven’t actually fingerblasted her ass and maybe get some hypno sessions to erase the memory from your mind. Even after you marry, the morality ballgame is going to be playing in her head the whole time you have sex. “Would Heavenly Father be upset that he’s kissing me down there? Maybe we should hurry and pray about it”.

      Trust me on what I’m going to say. Girls who are super weird and frigid and waaay over think sex are the same ones that get pregnant within a year and couldn’t care less about your sexual needs from then on. You’ll end up unsatisfied, most likely overweight and probably lurking around Craigslist while she’s off with her Relief Society girlfriends bowling.

      Find someone confident in herself and in her sexuality or you aren’t going to be happy and she will resent you.

      IsaythesethingsinthenameofJesusChrist,Amen

      Reply Nov 17, 2013 @ 11:22:14
      • Greg Rockwell

        Aaaaaaaand that was awesome.

        Reply Nov 18, 2013 @ 16:40:12
      • Brad

        And so true. I’ve come to realize that mormon women will never love YOU, but only your temple recommend and RM status

        Reply Feb 09, 2014 @ 16:19:32
      • Rob

        MANDY!!!!!! I LOVE THE POST!!!!!

        And I agree…

        The Molly Mormon frigidity thing ended my marriage and has cost me close to half a million dollars. NO SHIT!

        I want to have a girlfriend and have that possibly turn into a marriage. I want that closeness and not only erotic connection, but emotional and intellectual.

        I can’t see myself ever really dating or even being interested in a Mormon girl. I am myself no longer LDS, and see no way to ever reconcile. I actually don’t want to–the problems the LDS church has with sex are endemic, and lots of things get posted here and there so the LDS church can claim plausible deniability (in many areas, not just sex).

        They are a dishonest organization–and they are cultish. Such cultures mess with people’s minds (and genitals).

        It might sound crazy, but being in SL County, I would date an ex-mo girl, preferably one who has had lots of sex and loves it. Why?…because I WANT SOMEONE WHO KNOWS WHAT SHE LIKES AND HAS APPETITE!.

        If the choice is between going to Relief Society or staying home and have a good romp with your man…give me the woman who says: “Hell,…baby,…get over and lets get this party going!”

        Reply Aug 06, 2016 @ 09:37:04
    • Rob

      Warren…I appreciated your post. Leadership Roulette is a real problem in a lot of areas. I live in SL County,…and in the stake where I was, I was told the following from a Bishop:

      “Even if you never have sex again [with your wife], its still worth it to keep the commandments.”

      The first thing that came to my mind was: “So, you can keep all the commandments [in marriage] and never have sex?….Ahhhh…ok. I get it. Sex is expendable and not a commandment after all.”

      It was subtle, but as time passed, I learned more and more the anti sexual messages (EVEN IN MARRIAGE!) that were being taught. Sex was always bad.

      Had a counselor who worked in “sexual addiction” say: “Sex is completely optional and 100% non-essential.”

      It took me over 10 years to deal with that bullshit, and the implications.

      One last comment about the Leadership Roulette. In this same stake, during the temple recommend interview, the SP (or counselor) would ask 2 final questions of the men: “When was the last time you look at pornography?” and “When was the last time you masterbated?” If you answered affirmative to either, you were involved in discussions, further counseling, possibly told to stop taking the sacrament, and even potentially released from callings. You certainly didn’t get your recommend.

      Masterbation in this stake was A SIN….period. And, the intrusive nature of the questions were pretty bizarre.

      My $0.02.

      Reply Aug 06, 2016 @ 09:26:23
      • Greg Palmer (@palmercomm)

        Yeah, I hear you. I had to wait two weeks, no jacking off, before getting a limited-use recommend from my bishop. I didn’t jack off…. manually. Still humped the bed.

        My bishop’s really concerned about me getting the Mel. priesthood.

        Reply Aug 06, 2016 @ 09:58:05
        • Rob

          Greg…I’m looking at the dates on these posts…and MAN am I way behind. Just found this site like 3 days ago, and its validating things I knew about over a decade ago, and vomited out (the LDS teachings that is) very soon afterward.

          The LDS church has a problem with sex. The pendulum between indulgence and abstinence swings almost exclusively to the right–or at least in my life time, and as it slowly begins to descend since the post Spencer Kimball, Mark Peterson, J Ruben Clark, Joseph Fielding Smith days,…it still leaves a lot to be desired.

          I can not find in a single LDS teaching that sex between married people for just sheer joy and pleasure is approved. It is ONLY an expression of love, and yet the LDS faith teaches that Agape (Charity love which is selfless and giving) is the only legitimate form of love. Eros (sexual romantic love) is condemned in the name of chastity and abstinence, and when it comes time to engage in sexual relations, you have to be selfless and filled with Agape type love.

          Who wants to be with someone who has no appetite or desire?…

          Behold,…the birth of duty sex….and let the thunder roll as the divorce courts bristle with business.

          And, if someone is tired or doesn’t want to engage because they have a meeting, or need to read scriptures, or whatever,…sex is relegated to the “not as important as” list.

          Remember Oaks talk: Good, Better, Best?….

          If I recall correctly, this pro family LDS church doesn’t say much about the #1 cause of divorce (according to Kinball,….and I believe it is still relevant) which is sexual frustration.

          I know, lets fix our marriage problems by reading scriptures, saying prayers, paying tithing, doing HT and VT,…etc. If there is enough time left over for …. heaven forbid…something carnal like sex!…(oh my!)…remember to be selfless, charitable, giving, and passive. Because, after all, getting it on because you are horny and hungry is very “natural”…and that is evil. We must put off the natural man…

          I said sex above. MY apologies. What I meant to say was “intimacy.”

          Reply Aug 06, 2016 @ 13:19:43
          • Greg Palmer (@palmercomm)

            I don’t want to be like that in my relationships, Rob. That’s why my mind seems to be constantly in the gutter. I’m learning things I should already know, so that when I finally do get married, I can know what my eternal companion wants. I’ll know which birth control may be best for her, and how to really turn her on.

            Now, I’m not going to be engaging in premarital sex (want to stay worthy, you know). I don’t believe in sex before marriage. However, on our wedding night, you better believe my wife will experience her first orgasm. Sex won’t be everything in our relationship (I mean, life must go on), but I’ll keep her happy.

            Of course, a lot of my personality aspects will have to be improved in order to even get a girl.

            Aug 06, 2016 @ 14:24:56
  6. Mallory

    After having no education around female sexuality as a teenager I just went out and figured it out on my own. Which had me thinking I must be part boy because girls aren’t supposed to be sexual. I was convinced that no mormon guy would marry me given that I was that passed around donut. But hey when I told my husband (mormon) while we were dating he couldn’t of cared less. He always said he wanted a women with experience. And when he told me he had masturbated and watched porn before I thought that sounded normal to me. I would have been worried if he didnt want to have sex with me while we were engaged and dating. Whenever we did take it too far I refused to tell the bishop, it felt creepy and stupid to me.

    We didn’t have a struggle transitioning into married sex life. I understood and had a healthy relationship with my sexuality- which I could have gotten much easier, rather than being that mormon girl. It took me a while to get that healthy relationship and let go of the guilt associated with being sexual and female. Having non mormon friends and moving out of utah really helped.

    I totally get what Amy was saying, I really believed that after I had sex that was it for me and there was no way I would marry a mormon guy. Kind of funny I ended up with return missionary virgin husband. Great podcast, I love the sex series.

    Reply Apr 05, 2013 @ 09:59:15
    • Amy R. Padgett Blosch

      thank you so much for sharing that Mallory!!! i often wonder if i am the only person that transformed the purity and morality msgs in to what i did….i’m so glad to know i’m not alone :) Thank you for listening and your support :)

      Reply Apr 07, 2013 @ 16:55:42
  7. Dave

    I was in the older singles for a while (post divorce) and as an active normal man there were many wonderful women involved in the singles program. In fact there were too many at times for it to be comfortable because I felt so out numbered. I was very active at church and I was very surprised at the sexual aggressiveness of some of the women that I went out with. As divorced people who had been sexually active at one time, it wasn’t very hard to cross the line again at lease to some extent. I knew several people who had been involved in at least mutual masturbation and still show up at the single’s temple trip. Guilt at 40 years old was way less that at 21. Church leaders were also less aggressive in their interviews.

    Reply Apr 05, 2013 @ 15:07:56
    • Amy R. Padgett Blosch

      thats good to know bishops are less aggressive….but do they still issue “punishments” for immorality when you are 40?

      Reply Apr 07, 2013 @ 16:57:12
      • Dave

        Yes they do. But from what I have seen is that for major sexual transgressions for people who are trying to live the “law of chastity” the punishment is nothing to probation to disfellowship, with probation being the most common. It really depend on the leaders. Men are sometimes held to a higher standard because they have the priesthood. People who come back to the church after being less active and who after getting active again are almost never punished for past sin, I have never seen it happen.

        Reply Apr 08, 2013 @ 17:14:02
        • Rob

          Dave…I have also seen this, and it use to make me extremely angry.

          I was an active member who had made mistakes, took the initiative to come forward and confess, and I was shamed and disciplined.

          My next door neighbor is out drinking, drugging, screwing around, and so forth…and no action is taken. IN fact, when or if he would come back, no action would be taken.

          If anyone again tells me “discipline” is a “court of love” or any other bullshit….I will yell LIE!!!!! at the top of my lungs!

          The mixed standard of justice and mercy makes no sense to me.

          But at this point, I am no longer LDS and never will be again. They don’t get my tithing money ever again…and I will not support them in their destructive teachings.

          Reply Aug 06, 2016 @ 13:03:58
      • Dave

        Amy, I wasn’t sure if you were joking or not but if you were not, I did want to answer.

        Reply Apr 08, 2013 @ 17:20:27
      • Rob

        It depends on the leadership at the time. I had hard-liners and they would bust you for anything.

        I know people who have had full intercourse who didn’t get busted, and I know people who had 15 second petting sessions with cloths on who got disfellowshipped for it.

        Reply Aug 06, 2016 @ 13:01:07
      • Greg Palmer (@palmercomm)

        My YSA bishop is quite supportive. He wants me to text him the moment I enter the temptation of masturbation, even in the middle of the night. He even gave me an “And It Came to Pass” rubber bracelet he’s also wearing.

        I had brought up my masturbation “problem” to a lot of my other bishops. They seem to be quite supportive of helping me quit. My most recent one even asked an Apostle (I believe it was Christenson) if masturbation was still wrong. The Apostle said it was still wrong.

        Reply Aug 06, 2016 @ 15:04:24
  8. Scott

    To respond to Amy’s question, I did have at least one lesson in a Deacons quorum class about “morality” involving one of those infamous object lessons. The one I remember most clearly was when one of the teachers brought in his wife who had baked a cake for the class. We just thought it was a reward for being well behaved, but as she served up the first slice, she spit in it and then asked who would like to have it. We were all stunned, of course. It seems that the analogy they drew during the lesson afterwards was that we as boys had to primarily avoid being the spoilers of girls’ virtue, and to not ruin them for their future husbands – though I think the message was also communicated that we ourselves would also be spoiled if we were sexually active before marriage.

    Reply Apr 08, 2013 @ 11:21:36
    • Steve

      Scott, I had a teacher do a similar object lesson that totally backfired. He asked, “who wants a piece of gum?” Several hands went up. He then chewed up a piece and offered it to me. I figured, “what the heck” and took it from him and chewed it. I was a 12 year old boy with an indestructible immune system. What would it hurt? A few of my fellow deacons started laughing, a few were grossed out, but the teacher who handed me the gum gave me the deepest scowl. It was so worth it. :D

      Reply Apr 10, 2013 @ 12:19:58
    • Amy R. Padgett Blosch

      holy effing Christ!! and to DEACONS??? the church has no idea what they are doing….

      Reply Apr 20, 2013 @ 19:22:51
  9. Jeff

    I’ll never forget the day a BYU student told me how badly it hurt to catch semen in the eye.

    Reply Apr 09, 2013 @ 10:55:43
  10. AB

    A group of us boys got the chewed/abused gum lesson from an EFY counselor at a nightly devotional (if that’s what it was called) circa 1989 in Texas. The counselor took a new stick of gum out and had us pass it around the circle and do whatever we wanted to do with it. We were a little confused but I think only the first kid put it in his mouth. The rest of us stepped on it, rubbed it in an armpit, spat on it, added a booger, etc. The object of the lesson was that we wouldn’t want to marry someone as abused as the gum, and that it applied to us (boys) also. It really is an object lesson that needs to be officially banned for various reasons, not the least of which it is “false doctrine” according to the Bible (if that is a scripture you believe in).

    There are so many other rational ways to address the issue of delaying sexual intimacy, at least one of which is psychological. Of course church leaders of youth aren’t trained in psychology -as unpaid clergy-and should shut the hell up all together. But assuming, they will continue to counsel, here is a hypothetical: a person could have some very amazing experiences with a person (probably with the non-virtuous, non-eternal-companion-worthy-type individual), then marry a person who will forever be a virtuous married partner with all the sexual hangups discussed in this series of podcasts. So you have setup both individuals for pain or mediocrity. The virtuous partner who will never come close to the amazing/adventurous pre-marriage experience, and the non-virtuous-prior-to-marriage partner who will spend many years thinking of how things could have been (exceptions excluded). Not that teenagers could grasp the future and appreciate it, but even something as simple as kissing or sensual touching with one partner can shape the lens through which the long-term partner is forever viewed. A non-experienced partner comes to the relationship with a blank sexual memory, and the ignorance can truly be bliss. But being examined by a pre-shaped lens can lead to self esteem issues, even if unvocalized by the other, leading to a downward spiral.

    Maybe all I’m saying is a new piece of gum is best off marrying another piece of new gum?

    Reply Apr 17, 2013 @ 13:27:02
    • Mormon Monk

      AB: sounds like you need to get laid… that was complicated! (and very well thought out)

      Reply Apr 17, 2013 @ 20:27:14
  11. Greg B

    I pierced my ear when I was in singles ward so the Molly’s would shun me and the cool chicks who weren’t bothered by superficial things filtered through. A true experiment of signal -v- noise.

    Reply May 02, 2013 @ 15:40:05
    • Josh

      Thats a great idea!!

      Reply Feb 15, 2015 @ 13:42:09
  12. Greg P.

    I’ve been listening to this podcast and I’ve been trying to figure out how to deal with my sexual tension and frustration. So, a few things about me. I’m 24, active member in the Church, an Aspie, and I’ve never been on a date. And I’ll admit, I have masturbated, and that’s something that I’ve brought up to a number of bishops. Especially during temple recommend interviews.

    In every other respect, I try to follow the law of chastity. Never slept with a woman, never even had any sexual contact with a woman. I’d rather die than play for the other team (the gays), and I prefer the good old fashioned vaginal intercourse. There’s nothing I want more than to put my penis in the vagina of a woman I love. I’m a good kid, or at least I’d like to think so. It’s just that my awkwardness makes it complicated and I have sexual desires. I want to get married in the temple, I want to have children, I want to be a sexual person and still go to the Celestial Kingdom.

    I’m not considering leaving the church at all. I still want to be faithful. However, the church doesn’t tell you how to deal with sexual tension and frustration. All I get from my father (former counselor in bishopric and High Priest leader many times over) is to go to activities and get to know people.

    Reply May 12, 2014 @ 12:45:32
  13. Uncle Ralph

    I dropped out of Mormonism when I was seven (I was terrified of baptism) so, needless to say, I never made it to the singles ward. But I had to laugh out loud at the descriptions of singles ward meetings where “no one was after anybody.” Reminded me of “mixers” I got roped into in my younger years where the guys would clump at one end of the room and talk about football and motorcycles and the girls would clump at the other end and talk about . . . clothes? draperies? . . . I don’t know; I couldn’t hear. It’s funny how if you’re trying to prevent STDs and pregnancy and preserve “virtue,” you can’t keep high schoolers and twenty-somethings apart, but if you’re trying to get them together, they won’t even talk to each other, much less touch each other. Seems like the leaders could maybe have employed some sneaky reverse psychology or other manner of subterfuge. I’m just sayin’ . . .

    Reply Mar 16, 2015 @ 21:26:55

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